HOME NEWS FORUM LINKS DOWNLOAD FAQ CONTACT
  
   Register now    Login
Search
Login
Username:

Password:


Lost Password?

Register now!
Main Menu


New Covenant Workshops Forum Index
   2005 NCW Discussion Topic: Constitutional Sin
     Constitutional Sin. Its cure?
Register To Post

| Newest First Previous Topic | Next Topic | Bottom | PDF
Poster Thread
Ron B
Posted on: 2008/8/8 16:32
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/1/20
From: Reading, UK
Posts: 3861
Re: the 'internal dialogue'
It is an interesting thought. 2 Corinthians speaks about preaching another Jesus and receiving another spirit.


----------------

robertw
Posted on: 2008/8/8 17:21
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/2/15
From: Independence, MO
Posts: 1910
Re: the 'internal dialogue'
Quote:
...receiving another spirit.


I suppose it would be good to try to understand how this could be because otherwise it could be happening and we would not know it.


----------------
Blessings, Robert Wurtz II

The Girded Mind

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GWN)

fred
Posted on: 2008/8/8 20:07
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2007/11/4
From: Holland
Posts: 325
Re: the 'internal dialogue'
robertw
Posted on: 2008/8/8 21:38
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/2/15
From: Independence, MO
Posts: 1910
Re: the 'internal dialogue'
Quote:
Perhaps this deserves some more study, but I am a little uneasy with this concept, for how much can a person sin before they would have to concede that it is no longer a deception, but they are really not free from Sin and rid of the Sin nature?Perhaps this deserves some more study, but I am a little uneasy with this concept, for how much can a person sin before they would have to concede that it is no longer a deception, but they are really not free from Sin and rid of the Sin nature?


This is a good question. It strikes at the root of our understanding of Entire Sanctification. What causes the question to come up is that I hear ministers seem to imply that once a person has been freed from Sin then they should no longer have an inclination to commit that sin and if they commit the sin again they must not have ever been freed. But what about sins that stem from our human nature? If a person tends to eat excessively, for example, and they did this before they were born again and still struggle with eating too much- can we say they were never born again or is it something else?

Hebrews talks about being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. I take that to mean that over time folk commit sin and no longer feel the sting of having committed it. They sin and feel no conviction because the sin itself somehow carries with it the opiat that deadens the heart I that area, it seems.


----------------
Blessings, Robert Wurtz II

The Girded Mind

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GWN)

robertw
Posted on: 2008/8/9 14:24
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/2/15
From: Independence, MO
Posts: 1910
Re: the 'internal dialogue'
Quote:
My quote: I suppose it would be good to try to understand how this could be because otherwise it could be happening and we would not know it.


I have really been seeking the Lord about this question. One of the things I keep thinking is that the devil is much more at work to cause us to stumble than we may realize. He seems to be able to come along and disquise or cloak himself so that we would think that the 'temptation' is coming from within, but I have noticed in the past that as certain temptations come along I have resisted the devil or even rebuked the devil and told it to leave and the associated 'feelings' or 'desires' (whatever sort they may be) left with him.


Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (James 4:7)

It seems that in the past I have only thought of temptation as an intellectual thing; but I am not convinced that the enemy does not come and in some way is able to press upon our souls and bodies various desires or emotions that attend the demonic spirits presence. If this is true then it explains to me why I have so sharply resisted certain aspects of Entire sanctification.

I have always wondered where the 'desire' or the 'feeling' came from in the temptation? In a sort of prevenient way, the enemy seems to be able to mix his temptation up in the form of a lie + the associated desire to fullfill it. Otherwise it would be impossible to beguile a person because it would not be a 'complete' deception. So the temptation that comes from 'without' feels like it is coming from within; where in reality it has an effect within but it does not originate within.

It seems that evil spirits have some capacity to cause us to 'will and do' their evil pleasure in a similar sense to how the Holy Spirit would deal with us. What makes us vulnerable to these things seems to be the fact that we are still in our natural bodies.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Cor. 15:44)

This is no doubt one of those "hard to be understood" passages Peter refers to. But it seems to me that the spiritual resurrection body will not be vulnerable to certain things like the soulish body now is (pulling a few concepts from D. Prince). God has yet to deal with our bodies. But it seems that the problem is that our spirit does not rule our body as it ought and this makes us particularl vulnerable to Satan.

It seems that the order of our being must be:

1. spirit
2. soul
3. body

This seems to be an improvement over lost man

1. body
2. soul
3. spirit (dead towards God)

If I am reading the text right in I Cor. 15:44 then what our spiritual body will be is:

1. spirit
2. body
3. soul

This would mean that the body is the complete slave of the human spirit that is alive to the Holy Spirit. We could worship in spirit and in truth and present our bodies without the interference of the soul element that now competes with the spirit for rights to gratify the person. In other words after the resurrection of the believer man will not have the battle of the soul seeking to dominate the body through various emotional and sensual forces.

I'll get the helmet...


----------------
Blessings, Robert Wurtz II

The Girded Mind

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GWN)

fred
Posted on: 2008/8/10 4:39
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2007/11/4
From: Holland
Posts: 325
Re: the 'internal dialogue'
Ron B
Posted on: 2008/8/10 8:42
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/1/20
From: Reading, UK
Posts: 3861
Re: the 'internal dialogue'
There is an illustration that I have heard used which I think has some merit. It has some demerit too but I still think it might make a contribution.

If we think of Sin, not sins, as a root then regeneration might me seen as the removal of the root. Personally I don't use the language of 'root' in my theology of sanctification so don't apply this too closely... When the root is removed it may leave behind its impression in the soil. We have an adversary who is able to lay a temptation into that impression so that if the 'sanctified' did not know that the root had been removed he would inevitably conclude that the 'root' had not been removed.

If however he 'knows' that it has been removed he must seek for another explanation of his experience.

Let's change the illustration... some diseases and infections are more easily acquired by some people. My family has an hereditary predisposition to throat infections. It has something, I understand, to do with the narrowness of the throat. Predisposition is not predestination but it does mean that I am particularly susceptible to throat infections; it has to do with the shape of my body.

Souls too have an hereditary aspect and character can often be seen in successive generations. I do not see this an inevitable, not predestined, but a definite predisposition. Even when I am genuinely born again by individual soul is going to have its unique 'shape' and that shape will cause me to be more disposed to some temptations than to others. I should feel no pride that I am not tempted as another is tempted; it is very likely that he is not tempted as I am tempted.

In my understanding it comes down to 'knowing'. Have I engaged with God? Have I received from God? Does His Spirit bear witness with my spirit? It is vital that I 'know'. I have an enemy who can create a personally tailored temptation that is so designed that if I don't 'know' I will most certainly be deceived.


----------------

« 1 ... 7 8 9 (10)
| Newest First Previous Topic | Next Topic | Top | PDF

Register To Post
 




Copyright © 2004-2007by Biblebase.com  |   |  Design by 7dana.com