This is a very dangerous sentence to start any discussion as it will put everyone on their guard, including myself. But I was trying to think a little outside the box and wanted your comments on these ideas

I was pondering on things and wondered if the ultimate goal that God has for us is that we become those that love. Since we know that God is love, then we too are to become those that also love: firstly Him and then one another. (I am deliberately avoiding using the word 'lover' because of the way that word is used today, though it is a good word, used rightly.)

What we have, then, is a people that were created to be those that love, and perhaps the whole idea for Adam was that he developed powers of love as he matured, but instead sin has entered and being able to love is far from us. The heartbreak of God's heart is that He has a world full of people that can no longer live in the way He does; they cannot love. In this situation the first step on the way is repentance, turning away from sin which I will address later. The second step is being forgiven, so unloving actions which have been committed in the past are washed away. Thirdly, we need to receive the Holy Spirit and one of the major reasons is Rom 5:5 ... because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. Fourthly, we need to sanctified; sin can no longer continue as part of our make up as Paul explains in this section that sin and love are contrary one to the other: Rom 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

I am not sure how far to take this next point, but it is almost as though heaven will be self-defining. A place where love exists between every person there, including and most importantly, the three members of the Godhead, will by definition be a place of heaven; even, could I say, if it was hell. Love would transform hell into heaven, so it could not exist as hell any longer. The lake of fire becomes a quarantined area, where those that cannot love are keep isolated and neutralised by the burning, so that their pernicious influences cannot affect the environment of love.

The other side of the coin of love, is 'death to self' or the cross. To show love will always involve dying to self and 'giving up my right to myself'. But such dying will be a great blessing to the receiving and the one giving.

The goal then of the gospel is take sinners and transform them into those that love. It seems to be the flavour of what John writes in his epistle. Am I way of the beaten track here, or is there something in these thoughts?

Kind regards

Mike

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It is by believing I know, not by knowing I believe!

I think of the phrase from Hebrews 2:10- For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

I think that God surely wanted to make man in His own image and a great part of that is agape love. But in order to be truly like Christ we would have to also love righteousness and hate iniquity (Hebrews 1:9, Psalm 45:7). So to emulate God's character as a child of God one would have to possess these characteristics as well, I think.

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Robert Wurtz II

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GW North)

The Girded Mind

Quote:

This seems to be exactly what Jesus prayed in John 17.

"I have declared unto them Thy Name, and will declare it, that the love wherewith Thou hast loved Me may be in them, and I in them" (Jn. 17.26).

His goal is not to just save us so we can go to Heaven when we die... but to receive the reward of His sufferings and subsequent high priestly ministry: those in whom the love of God is perfected.

It's encouraging to see here (in John 17) that He will not stop short of this.

God is love. God is light. God is Spirit.
Those are the three absolutes that come to mind, but as soon as God is in the equation we are bound to say, after the manner of Mr Spock.... 'it's life Jim but not as we know it'.

So with 'God is love'. It is love Jim, but not as we know it.
So with 'God is Light'. It is light Jim, but not as we know it.
So with 'God is Spirit'. It is Spirit Jim, but not as we know it.

God's love is not is opposition to his justice. His justice is a particular manifestation of his love.

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His/Yours
Ron B

God deals with hand-crafted masterpieces not mass-produced replicas.

Biblebase Second Thoughts Blog

Adisciple wrote Quote:Sometimes I have the tendency to say something that afterwards seems so blindingly obvious I guess I am still struggling through on understanding the full extent of these things. I hope you can bear with me brethern, if I am a little slow. I don't think I need to be 'overdriven'. and if men should overdrive them one day, all the flock will die. That is, of course, if I am a sheep

robertw wrote Quote:I totally agree, I just wondered if part of love is having this attitude? Your Hebrews 2:10 reference sets of a whole line of thinking: what is glory?

kind regards

Mike

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It is by believing I know, not by knowing I believe!