Here in the midwest I am often challenged by teachers/staff that work in schools that have a tendency to want to talk at everyone as if they were grammar school kids; almost with a contempt. I find it challenging to be kind of ordered around like I was a child.

I wondered also that maybe it was a turn off for many folks in the UK to hear direct dogmatic statements because they sometimes kind of understate things. At least that's my understanding. To give you an example of what I mean I felt it necessary to rewrite the former sentence that I originally wrote as, "I wondered also that maybe it was a turn off for many folks in the UK to hear direct dogmatic statements because they usually understate things." In this case I changed to, "sometimes kind of." I find myself doing that a lot these days in my writings, but not always. Just trying to knock the edge of some of my dogmatic statements.

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Robert Wurtz II

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GW North)

The Girded Mind

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Yes, I also think it's quite nicely done. I think generally his approach would be to say that is not a problem - going back to common grace, there is beauty in post-modern design. His main point is that we should be alive to what the architect is doing and why.

Patronizing? I really like his style. I have just started David Wells' No Place for Truth, which covers similar ground and I have realized that Jerram Barrs presents a very basic introduction but that may be in part because of the age of his audience (early 20s?). He does have a slightly slow and deliberate delivery and include a large number of illustrations. It means he doesn't cover much ground but for listening to 'on the go' I find it very good. Having said that, I played part of one of his lectures to my wife and she immediately reminded me of this.

Common grace. You sound as if you disapprove of common grace. If so I'd be interested to know your thoughts on it. I thought it was one really solid bit of Calvinism.

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I thank Thee, uncreated Sun, That Thy bright beams on me have shined; I thank Thee, who hast overthrown My foes, and healed my wounded mind;

Oh no, I fully support common grace. I was just spelling out his position for folk who might not know it. Perhaps I was comparing this with David Calhoun who is also a slow speaker but absolutely packed with data.

I just find myself wishing, I wish he would get on with it! and give me reasons rather than judgements.

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His/Yours
Ron B

God deals with hand-crafted masterpieces not mass-produced replicas.

Biblebase Second Thoughts Blog

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I have tried to catch up with you brethren getting to #6 now (skipped epistimology). We have a saying about being thrown under the bus, well, lets just say I've been worn slick. But I must endeavor to persevere.

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Robert Wurtz II

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GW North)

The Girded Mind

I have a long drive tomorrow so I may catch up a little. Why did you dodge epistemology. I would have thought that was pretty fundamental.

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His/Yours
Ron B

God deals with hand-crafted masterpieces not mass-produced replicas.

Biblebase Second Thoughts Blog

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I figure to come back to it as I wanted to hear what he had to say about the nature of authority. Any time I have crossed paths with the cults I always felt it important to establish the authority of my sources. I think the challenge today is to somehow establish the authority of God's word and the rightly divided word in such a way that it cannot be resisted. I think this is a supernatural proposition essential so that men's faith does not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. I'm to lecture 7 now and the supernatural element of God is mysteriously absent. Apart from a genuine demonstration or some sort, we are almost left to argue concepts; because no matter how powerful the argument the enemy always has a rebuttal that closes the hearers ears and hardens their heart. But as Steven experienced, He being supernaturally energized by God brought the people to a decision.

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Robert Wurtz II

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GW North)

The Girded Mind

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Have you read/listened to anything by D A Carson on post-modernism? His stuff is fact-packed but he is addressing a much more academic audience.

As regards authority I think he introduces that well, although I don't think 'pastors' ought to be respected by the world! His tumbnail sketches of pre-modernism, modernism and post-modernism with the different focii on authority is a very helpful start to things.

Similarly I strongly agree with his comments about Monty Python. Cynicism comes from the word for dog, and there is a tearing cruelty in all Python stuff.

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His/Yours
Ron B

God deals with hand-crafted masterpieces not mass-produced replicas.

Biblebase Second Thoughts Blog

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You guys are going to be finished with this course before I have even started I think. Good thing we didn’t agree to a time table. I have done the introduction by Bryan Chapell. Right away the impression is given that the ministry is generally influenced by Calvinist theology. Jerram Barrs, the course director worked for twenty years at L’ Abri in Switzerland, founded by Francis Schaeffer. I expect that this will have considerable influence on his world view and approach to the subjects that are discussed. I live in a country that has been steeped in Calvinism for 400 years, which has shaped the culture, thinking and way of life to a large degree as it probably did in much of the western world. It is sometimes jokingly said that in Holland even the Catholics and non believers are Calvinists and I think there is some truth in it. However, I became a Christian whilst living outside of Holland in a church background where the theology of for instance Oswald chambers and John Wesley was frequently quoted. They are often referred to as being more Arminian then Calvinistic in their interpretation of scripture, but I am not sure if that’s strictly true.

Nevertheless, I like some of the things Jerram Barrs said concerning the context of L’Abri. That there are no questions off limits and that if Christianity is indeed the truth, which of course it is, then we should happily welcome any kind of question or objection or doubt or anxiety. He said that God never rebukes people for asking questions or for challenging him in his word. So scripture does not rebuke us for asking questions and raising objections. That Jesus is a friend of sinners and that it is good to be around all sorts of people and not feel threatened by them, but learn from them. We must be prepared to learn from whatever we read and whatever we watch. I can’t fully agree with him though that human beings always manifest the image of God.

That’s very true, you can learn a lot from other people’s insights, even if their overall philosophy is contrary to the scriptures. Sometimes error is mixed with some truth and if you can identify where they have gone wrong it will enable you to see the truth of the gospel more clearly. Take for instance existentialism. If you can recognize that it is basically an attempt to formulate the rules of existence it soon becomes clear what’s lacking. They have left God out of the equation, without whom we don’t have existence and certainly can’t function in the manner that is validated by him.

He mentioned John Calvin and his passionate commitment to education. He wrote the rules for the school teachers. One of the rules was that the teachers were to have their students read the Greek and Roman Pagan writers and Calvin put this in his directions. “ The teachers are not to criticize these writers but are rather to help their students see what they can learn from them, even though they are not believers.” He also said that Calvin himself said elsewhere that it is a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to deny that Pagan writers like Plato had many helpful things to say which can teach us as believers. Calvin says that so strongly because he so passionately believed in what we might call the common grace of God………that God is gracious to the whole human race, not just to Christians, not just to believers.

That comes as a bit of a surprise, for I thought that one of the points of Calvinism was the total depravity of man. I guess I am not so familiar with the term the common grace of God…….I’ll have to look into that sometimes. I am a little puzzled though why he called it blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to deny that Pagan writers had helpful things to say which can teach us as believers. Calvin was not very gracious to Michael Servetus though and was instrumental in him being burned on the stake because of his controversial religious writings. Servetus had already been on the run from the Catholic inquisition, its kind of ironic that his life ended in the hands of the Protestants. The very people who themselves had suffered so much injustice at the hands of the inquisition for holding opposing views to the Catholics.

However, I like the course. I will try to catch up with you all. I like what Robert said and I quote: “ I think the challenge today is to somehow establish the authority of God’s word and the rightly divided word in such a way that it cannot be resisted.” End of quote.

Thanks,

Fred

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Yes it does.

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It certainly is tue for Wesley and, I expect, Oswald Chambers. If you go to CCEL (Christian Classics Ethereal Library) and do a search for the keywords "Wesley and Arminianism" you will get a lot of articles and book chapters that address it.

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I really appreciated his approach to difficult questions too. I found his whole approach in that regard good. I think he is right when he says man is made in the image of God. He would accept that man is fallen but he still retains something of that image. This is what sets man apart from the animals. See also Genesis 9:6.
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Yes, I'm with you. Also, if we are to love people properly I wonder if it is not very important that we try to understand them.
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I am quite interested in getting to grips with Calvinism to really understand what it invovles as I can see scriptures that support election etc. However, there seem to have been some dreadful incidents during the reformation which seem a million miles from God's expression of love in Christ.

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I thank Thee, uncreated Sun, That Thy bright beams on me have shined; I thank Thee, who hast overthrown My foes, and healed my wounded mind;