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     Is sin the condition of the unregenerate only?
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Jonah
Posted on: 2014/6/28 11:59
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2011/3/25
From: Smethwick UK
Posts: 147
Is sin the condition of the unregenerate only?
Romans 7:14

1 Timothy 1:15


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"Give me the faith which can remove and sink the mountain to a plain, give me the childlike, praying love that longs to build Thine house again"

robertw
Posted on: 2014/6/28 17:00
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/2/15
From: Independence, MO
Posts: 1910
Re: Is sin the condition of the unregenerate only?
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. (Romans 7:14)

This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy... (1 Timothy 1:15, 16a)


I think there are two separate but related issues here. In 1 Timothy 1:15, 16a Paul is establishing the depth of God's mercy as an encouragement to all who would hear the Gospel. He says a few verses before... "I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man..." He is directing our attention to his persecution of the Church - prior to meeting Christ. The worst sins we can imagine were committed by Paul. A man attacking and trying to snuff out the Bride of Christ? It would seem he was worthy of a thousand eternities in Hell for such behavior. How many little ones that believed on Christ did he offend? How many millstones draped around his neck did he deserve?

Paul never forgot the mercy that God bestowed upon him. He was forgiven of much and he loved much. Paul was the chief of sinners in terms of his history, but he was pressing towards the mark for the prize of the High Calling as a present reality. Christ made the difference. Apart from Him the chief of sinners would have received the chief recompense of reward and a chief seat in the depths of eternal perdition.

In Romans 7:14 Paul is explaining our condition (using himself as the example) apart from Christ. In other words, apart from being in Christ, I am carnal and sold under sin. In myself I am in the flesh, but if I am baptized into Christ by the Spirit, I am no longer in the flesh. Again, Christ makes the difference. Without him we neither have forgiveness for sins committed (the fruit of Sin) nor are we free from Sin the dynamic (the root of sins). Christ makes the difference.

That is not to say that we do not experience temptation in this present evil world; nor does it mean we are incapable of sinning. Adam sinned before he fell. We are still human and are subject to all of our natural human desires. The world is in a fallen state and sin is rampant. Here we are tempted to fulfill our good natural human desires in sinful ways. Nevertheless, this is not the same thing as having a fallen sinful nature.

So in summary, I would say that sinning remains a temptation for the regenerate; not because they have an inward inclination to sin, but because they still have natural desires (to eat, to drink, to procreate, to rule, etc.) that can be answered by sinful temptations. My inward - human desire for marital relations and physical affection is natural, God-given, and good; however, it does not discriminate. I have to consciously make sure that my human desires are properly guided and that I don't feed them until the become unnatural lusts. Because lust is a power that will try to control us and even seem out-of-control if we're not careful. Our natural desires, if fed into an unnatural lust, will begin to war against the spirit.

Just some thoughts.


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Blessings, Robert Wurtz II

The Girded Mind

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GWN)

Jonah
Posted on: 2014/6/29 0:26
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2011/3/25
From: Smethwick UK
Posts: 147
Re: Is sin the condition of the unregenerate only?
Thank you Robert that is very helpful.

It would seem that it is perfectly possible for the regenerate man to live according to the flesh (Romans 8:13, 1 Corinthians 3:3 and many other examples in the New Testament epistles).

I have never subscribed to 'the battle of two natures' doctrine (we are wholly new...2 Cor 5:17) but it seems there is flesh to lead us astray if we do not 'mortify the deeds of the body' (Romans 8). Perhaps the idea of 'two natures' is not so far off the mark as long as we focus on the victory over the flesh through walking in the Spirit in 'newness of life'? Since the the old man and the flesh are crucified with Christ (Gal 5:24, Romans 6:6) I can't quite get my head round why we still need to 'mortify the deeds of the body'; but we do, and if we deny this, His word is not in us (1 John 12:8...a verse I should have quoted at the very beginning!)

(I believe this sort of discussion has been thrashed out before in the forums but having come late to the party I found it too hard to obtain answers from discussions in which I had not directly participated myself, although I have tried to contribute in this area a few times before.)




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"Give me the faith which can remove and sink the mountain to a plain, give me the childlike, praying love that longs to build Thine house again"

Ron B
Posted on: 2014/7/4 13:25
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/1/20
From: Reading, UK
Posts: 3861
Online
Re: Is sin the condition of the unregenerate only?


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Ron B
Posted on: 2014/7/4 15:15
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/1/20
From: Reading, UK
Posts: 3861
Online
Re: Is sin the condition of the unregenerate only?


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robertw
Posted on: 2014/7/5 3:33
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/2/15
From: Independence, MO
Posts: 1910
Re: Is sin the condition of the unregenerate only?
I have a feeling Ron's trying to say something here.


----------------
Blessings, Robert Wurtz II

The Girded Mind

Obedience is better esteemed with God than acquired knowledge, it is the most important lesson -fundamental to the gaining of all spiritual knowledge from God. (GWN)

ADisciple
Posted on: 2014/7/5 17:18
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2009/5/8
From: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 359
Re: Is sin the condition of the unregenerate only?
Quote:
I have a feeling Ron's trying to say something here.


I was searching through various threads the other day trying to find an old post and discovered that the content of many posts was missing-- many by Ron, some by myself, some by others.

It's quite the mystery.
Jonah
Posted on: 2014/7/6 20:58
Just can't stay away
Joined: 2011/3/25
From: Smethwick UK
Posts: 147
Re: Is sin the condition of the unregenerate only?
I do hope it can be sorted out!


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"Give me the faith which can remove and sink the mountain to a plain, give me the childlike, praying love that longs to build Thine house again"

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