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     Interesting defense for Limited Atonement
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Ron B
Posted on: 2012/5/16 18:45
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/1/20
From: Reading, UK
Posts: 3861
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Re: Interesting defense for Limited Atonement
Quote:
I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not?

Let's go back a stage...

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17 NKJV

This is the conclusion of a section which begins with God sending the preacher. So 'unbelief' is the refusal to believe what I have heard God say. It requires 'repentance' of the kind that 'brings forth fruits worthy of repentance'. In other words we can't repent and still refuse to believe.

Christ says The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. Matt 12:41 NKJV
So we can examine the people of Nineveh to develop a definition of repentance. The first step of their 'repentance' was that ...the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. Jonah 3:5 NKJV


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Tomas
Posted on: 2012/5/17 12:56
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Joined: 2008/6/17
From: UK
Posts: 88
Re: Interesting defense for Limited Atonement
Ron B
Posted on: 2012/5/17 13:27
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/1/20
From: Reading, UK
Posts: 3861
Online
Re: Interesting defense for Limited Atonement
I think we are saying the same thing. For me 'faith' is a response to revelation or if you prefer 'a choice'.


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Tomas
Posted on: 2012/5/17 13:44
Quite a regular
Joined: 2008/6/17
From: UK
Posts: 88
Re: Interesting defense for Limited Atonement
I think we are saying the same thing. For me 'faith' is a response to revelation or if you prefer 'a choice'.

I wasn't thinking that what I posted was in anyway contradictory to what you posted. If what I wrote comes over in that way then I'm glad to have the opportunity to put it straight.

Rightly or wrongly I think of John 3:19 as a key verse in making sense of the fundamentals of the mechanics of evangelism and yet, it seems to me, it isn't seen by many in that light (no pun intended). I'm not suggesting that any who post here miss its significance - that comment relates to other Christian forums that I visit from time to time.
MikeH
Posted on: 2014/7/2 19:23
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/8/31
From: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 1174
Re: Interesting defense for Limited Atonement
We typically make a distinction between brotherly love and agape love. Brotherly love implies family and we have a commitment or duty to love our brother. By agape implies totally selfless love, ie I love without expectation of reward. If limited atonement is true, then Christ did not love with agape. He only truly loved those that would become His, so He was expecting a reward. If He agaped, then He would die for all regardless of whether they would come to Him or not, in other words His sacrifice is valid for all.

I have thought for a long time that Calvinism, where it is disputed, fails on the basis of love. I think I am getting a little clear why! Limited atonement negates agape.


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Kind regards
Mike

dgawlicki
Posted on: 2014/7/3 23:44
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Joined: 2014/2/9
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Posts: 7
Re: Interesting defense for Limited Atonement
For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe. 1 Tim 4.10 Maybe it is to say that Jesus died for all men but the salvation becoming effective for those who responded to the revelation of who HE is.
dgawlicki
Posted on: 2014/7/4 0:06
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Joined: 2014/2/9
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Re: Interesting defense for Limited Atonement
You touched here the subject of faith. And i do like "faith it is the positive response to revelation" But often i hear that Christian speak of faith as the "gift of God". Therefore they say if someone doesn't believe it is because he/she didn't receive the gift. I don't know any scripture to support that. Is there any? Maybe it is Eph 2.8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God" But does it really say that? Isn't "grace" the "gift" and faith the channel?
MikeH
Posted on: 2014/7/4 8:17
Needs to get out a bit more!
Joined: 2005/8/31
From: Dresden, Germany
Posts: 1174
Re: Interesting defense for Limited Atonement
dgawlicki wrote Quote:
I don't know any scripture to support that. Is there any? Maybe it is Eph 2.8
Sadly I am not a greek scholar, but I would also link the gift to salvation, not faith. The following is the Young's literal translation and I think the emphasis is that salvation is not of us it is a gift. Faith is do I believe the message I have heard.

Eph 2:8-9 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you--of God the gift, 9 not of works, that no one may boast (YLT)

There is an aspect of faith which is a gift as recorded in 1 Cor 12, but I see this as a completely different application. This is not saving faith, but faith for or in a particular situation.

1Co 12:7, 9a But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. ... To another faith by the same Spirit


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Kind regards
Mike

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